So uh, how can next gen succeed?

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So uh, how can next gen succeed?

(50 posts)

Started 4 months ago by Dragon246
Latest reply from lexph3re

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Dragon246
Member

Past few generations have all been won by weaker consoles, who with their attractive price points offered cheaper alternatives to play games. I personally believe these are the things that will dictate who will sell the most next gen-
1.Cheaper than competition (which obviously means weaker hardware unless you are )
2.Easier development of games (MS will always have the edge here with DX)
3.Better marketing (MS will have the lead here, given their well greased marketing div and lots of moolah to spend)

Regional preferences will still a major role (eu will still prefer ps, and us and uk xbox , but I think its almost guranteed that the cheaper console will take the lead this time, unless the difference is marginal.
I think they should not price next gen systems more than 400$ at launch.
First point is the most important one as I don't think a situation like ps3 and 360 will happen again where a significantly costlier console take the lead.
Thoughts?

Posted 4 months ago #
Phoenixblight
Member

MS and Sony are better doing a tiered system much like Xbox 360 did only the base hardware should be priced around 400 then they can include bundles for higher price. THe rumor about MS selling a set top box is a great idea who just use their system for that.

Posted 4 months ago #
Dragon246
Member

@PB
I dont think such a set box should be taken as a next gen console. It will more be like MS leveraging their xbox brand into entertainment biz, which is obviously clever and logical.
But I agree about multiple skus, 400 for a non-frills version and maybe a 500 one for enthusiasts bundled with online subs , larger hdd (a ssd version would be awesome).
I hope next-gen allow installing disk games on hdd completely and then use disk for verification like pc, but that's impossible I guess.

Posted 4 months ago #
Ireland Michael
Moderator

Make good games.

Posted 4 months ago #
Dragon246
Member

@Michael,
Ps2 was a notoriously difficult console to develop for, but the cheap pricing and popularity forced devs to ignore that.
Also waiting for the inevitable rise of japanese devs!

Posted 4 months ago #
Sadismek
Member

Yeah, I want good games. Pricing comes on second place.

Posted 4 months ago #
Phoenixblight
Member

Pricing first for me especially since I only buy a console for their exclusive games and it being a streaming box when I am not playing games. Its pretty much what my PS3 is. I won't be touching it unless I feel like playing an older game or until GTA V.

Posted 4 months ago #
monkeygourmet
Member

The 'make good games' thing is neither here nor there.

I'm sure MS & Sony are going to spend millions on R & D then just make shitty games?!

It's a non point, lets assume the games will be good and go fom there...

Personally I think MS are going to make a very powerful console this time round then a tablet like console as its media offering.

I think the new Xbox will have a lot of customised parts and that's where it'll differ from the PS4 which will be based more on a standard PC architecture.

Posted 4 months ago #
Sadismek
Member

@MG PlayStation's games made me purchase the console in the first place. For me Uncharted, inFamous and GT looked like something that I'd enjoy more than Gears of War and Halo. It all depends on the exclusivities for me right now.

Of course, if MS push their limits and get their console done with fresh ideas in mind(and get a lot of studios to make games for them), I'll consider getting their console, but until then, PS has the lead.

Posted 4 months ago #
Dragon246
Member

@MG
I would beg to differ on R&D. Ms definitely has more moolah, but more moolah doesn't necessarily mean better R&D, experience matters a lot. Sony, being a hardware cos, is ahead of MS in that regard.
Although I don't think custom are the order of the day, they only make game development difficult.

Posted 4 months ago #
monkeygourmet
Member

@Dragon

Not custom as in CELL, just heavily tweaked.

Posted 4 months ago #
lexph3re
Member

is this a personal "how can next gen succeed" or a overall?

If overall, MS just has to do like they do in all their sectors. Make people believe they are either the only ones doing X,Y,Z or They are the ones doing it best.

Sony needs to Milk EVERY franchise created from Psone to the 3. After this gen no more experimenting. Start hitting peoples nostalgia buttons. Make an Infamous 4 Than reboot it. Reboot the Resistance franchise, Make a Killzone 5 than reboot it. Make a Last of Us 2 with different character etc etc.

The impulse buyer will buy whatever is being considered hot and fresh at the time. The ones that buy off of friends preference will likely migrate towards whatever their friends are playing or playing at. The devoted ones will typically buy what they know.

In order for MS to succeed next gen to me. They need to make multiplayer free, better hardware, less phishing scams, less hacked lobbies in games, Start to explore new Ips on a 1st party front and stop leaving it to indies, decent ram to go with the cpu, actual HD and not upscaled sub HD games, App support without the requirements of live, A windows 8 Like interface with a micro kernal to relieve ram consumption.

In order for Sony to succeed for me. They need to have a cpu that mocks the competition and upgrade the cell. That way they can do their own thing and let the 3rd party devs have parity on their platforms. add video chat to ps4 and vita. Not skype but actual os vid chat that enables the vita to be a controller using the camera on the vita to emulate through the ps4. They can even make a special controller with the camera on it to connect through usb for people who don't care for the vita/ps4 use.

Convince 3rd parties for exclusive versions of games. That way they don't have to sit at the standard of competitors for an entire generation like this gen. Utilize cloud streaming, make 1st party titles like sly,medieval,ratchet, etc at 20-40 bucks. And other games that are Eye candy like UC, Last of us, gow 50-60. Start making digital titles cheaper faster after retail release. Make digital ps2 games compatible on vita even if you have to stream it through a personal cloud service on everyones console.

As for Nintendos current console. Don't make me wait 3 years till you start releasing Wii U quality games. Don't Vaporware me anymore. Mario and your other 1st party games will no longer entice me. Pull something new out of thin air something that isn't E for everyone. You have enough of thoses. Zombie U is a good start but do some more. I don't care what your 3rd party multi plats are anymore because even if its a weaker version visually if the competition is handling my 1st party thirst I don't care how the multi plats performs this isn't ps2 snes era anymore.

Posted 4 months ago #
polygem
Member

i really don't want to be a dick...but ninteno are the only ones you really cannot blame for bringing nothing new...so many original games! mario galaxy is an original game eventhough it has ol` mario in it. this isn't lazy ass creed ip milking. i will never understand why people cannot see that. metroid other m, prime...and so on, but i've said that a million times ;)
they have been the first with motion gaming, now the tablet. you can like or hate that but you cannot call it lazy imo.
they need third party support AND great first party stuff (well they all do). i think it's all on the way. bayonetta, wonderfull 101, rayman. they'll announce some wow games at e3 to counter ps4nextbox. amazing 3ds games in the pipeline too.
they need to unite 3ds wiiu miiverse. they're working on that. need more services, more demos, more e-shop content. virtual console wiiu...windwaker hd...hell it would even be possible to make hd ports of DS games for wiiu. people would buy their zelda spirit tracks hd all over again.

i totally agree with sony playing the nostalgia card. they have some great ip's indeed and some have been neglected too much. sir dan!
i wont speculate too much about sony. it would be too negative. i just don't have a good feeling...i think they're in a shit position. ms being the service n' online pros, nintendo being nintendo...i don't know. maybe they need a new controller;) i want a strong sony. they have been a part of my teen days. i love some of their ip's. they should try less to be the cool kid.

ms. expand xbl, video xchat-hello tablet..., keep xbl a paid service (it worked, why change it), make subscription models, contracts, more services, kinect 2.0, a tablet controller, migrate the 360 gamertag track record, make peoples track record feel important. keep pushing the exclusives you got but also make new ones, ''mature'' games AND e-rated games, kart racers, family stuff but quality stuff. keep the regular 360 pad as a tablet alternative (like wiiu pro) or only slightly change it.

all consoles shouldn't cost more than 400€$

oh and they all need something miiverseish social...

Posted 4 months ago #
DSB
Member

I'd like to see a console with an interface that doesn't suck, with business models that offer some sense of quid pro quo, and a general understanding that a TV can be used for more than just playing games.

I'm not impressed with MS or Sony on those counts, so I'm hoping they'll be smart enough to kinda doublecheck their thinking before going into this one.

In terms of software I'd obviously like some awesome games, but it's pretty important that they run well too, and that goes for multiplats as much as exclusives in my case.

Hardware is definitely the last point on the list.

Posted 4 months ago #
Phoenixblight
Member

@DSB what do you mean "with business models that offer some sense of quid pro quo" Could you explain that more?

Posted 4 months ago #
lexph3re
Member

@poly if you compare the factor of how different Jak is to Uncharted. Nintendo aren't bringing anything new just because they change the genre the protagonist is in. The metroid prime series started on the gamecube and had a ds spin off Metroid prime hunter(in which I was trying to get all my friends to play). However, The other M is exactly that another metroid.

You never seem to get that some people are just generally tired of the same ole with Nintendo. Some people like you don't care, others do. I don't care to see characters in sub-genres or even new genres,. If they made a FPS God of War I wouldn't give 2 shites about it. Especially if I have Kratos Fatigue.

Bayonetta 2 isn't really a new ip just because it becomes exclusive to nintendo, neither is Rayman Legends. Wondeful 101 looks like an acquired taste over a must have. That's why the points I see you touched on were still my personal points to how the console could improve for me.

Posted 4 months ago #
Sadismek
Member

@DSB Well, awesome games is what I want aswell, but they need some new hardware to run well.

+1 for new interface.

@poly Oh, a new Medievil would be great! Sony would better use their old IPs, alongside a nice mix of their latest and brand new ones. And Vita bundled with the console would be an insta-buy for me.

Posted 4 months ago #
Phoenixblight
Member

"The metroid prime series started on the gamecube and had a ds spin off Metroid prime"

Wrong. You may have just dated yourself there.

Posted 4 months ago #
DSB
Member

@Phoenixblight Like not simply wiping off your operating expenses on the users every time you have the opportunity. I think Playstation Plus is a step in the right direction.

A subscription for services that are considered utterly elementary on every other device needs to justify itself.

Ultimately the user isn't responsible for that expense. Either the operator can provide the service without bringing a crippling loss to their business, or they can't, in which case they should probably consider another business.

Posted 4 months ago #
polygem
Member

@sadismek: yes vita bundled option would be great. but then....pricing?
i waited for a medievil game this whole gen. i seriously have no clue why we haven't seen one...the daxter psp game was insaneley great too. where was that stuff? these are the powerful sony characters to me, they should make games with these. they made some ratchet games and i loved them. that's really the stuff i want to see from sony. am i alone? i don't think so. i hope the new sly game will sell well. i hope they launch ps4 with a medievil game...could really be a system seller for me.

Posted 4 months ago #
lexph3re
Member

@Pheonix Not wrong http://www.amazon.com/Metroid-Prime-GameCube/dp/B00006IJJK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1358626894&sr=8-1&keywords=metroid+prime+gamecube Metroid PRIME SERIES started on gamecube like I said and it finished on Wii. Metroid series itself started on nintendo. I didn't date myself at all

Posted 4 months ago #
Phoenixblight
Member

I encompass the entire series starting with Nintendo to SNES along with the Gamecube and Wii. Its the same IP.

Posted 4 months ago #
monkeygourmet
Member

So Xbox 720 hardware is on this diagram:
- super advanced tech by IBM-AMD-MS. Design started back in 2007 as you said in 2010.
- It has APU+GPU on every SOC(system on a chip).
- It has 2 of this SOCs
- Each CPU in APU has 8 cores with 4 thread in each. So tolal we have 2xSOC x 8Cores x 4 threads = 16cores x 4thread=64 threads.
- Each GPU in SOC is 8xxx GPU(Mars or Venus) with advanced tech not available on PC some time
- Each SOC has 1.5Gb of GdDR5 memory with additiond 5 gb of shared ddr3/ddr4.
- Each SOC has EDRAM. Previosly you said about 110 mb
- Xbox has some other hardware features. Like RayTraycing chip(VTE on this picture).
- The goals of the system design are - universal for different type of tasks, easy to parralellism, easy to fully load, zero bottlenecks an future proof as Xbox 360 design with low energy consumtion..
- Some part will be upgradable later.
- It should be about 4+terraflops. Of couse it will be better of every high end PC available in 2013-2014 and maybe 2015. With optimisation it have to be on pair with PC 8 years.
- There will be Kinect 2.0
- There will be illumiroom tech as additional feature after the launch.

Sources said Xbox will be 2-3 time more powerfull than PS4. Most of this tech will not be available on PC and is very custom.

http://www.psu.com/forums/showthread.php/305107-Is-that-Xbox-720-architecture-diagram-Looks-like-a-monster-with-parts-ahead-of-time?p=5987489

More stuff to digest! :)

Posted 4 months ago #
Sadismek
Member

Sounds great, but then how can Microsoft price this around the $400 mark? This sounds more like $900.

And in plus, it's too good to be true :P.

Posted 4 months ago #
Phoenixblight
Member

@mg Link?

You don't post crap like that without sourcing it.

And a lot of it is far fetched like the 2xSOC and the raytracing chip. There are none out in this day and age that is stable enough for games hell even movie CG rendering. Very much seems like a person or group of people put everything they want it to have and try to sell it as a leak.

Posted 4 months ago #
monkeygourmet
Member

Link was just something I found browsing, it's at the bottom of the list.

http://www.psu.com/forums/showthread.php/305107-Is-that-Xbox-720-architecture-diagram-Looks-like-a-monster-with-parts-ahead-of-time?p=5987489

I'm not saying any of this is 100% obviously, just trying to draw a thread through some of the leaked dev info and some more spurious stuff.

Remember there was talk of 16 cores after dev meetings and crazy specs in general. I'm not saying its bang on but I just can't see these consoles lasting 10 years (projected life cycle) without some serious power.

Of course, it may just be a shorter generation although I don't see that happening.

Posted 4 months ago #
lexph3re
Member

@phoenix We were specifically talking about prime and other M though. Which is when I said its another metroid.

Posted 4 months ago #
polygem
Member

@lex: rayman was an example for third party support, bayonetta and 101 too. it's platinum games.

"You never seem to get that some people are just generally tired of the same ole with Nintendo. Some people like you don't care, others do. I don't care to see characters in sub-genres or even new genres,. If they made a FPS God of War I wouldn't give 2 shites about it. Especially if I have Kratos Fatigue."

i think you do not really look into that though.
it's not just like putting mario in any random fps. galaxy is very unique gameplaywise. it is different to paper mario and to nsmb.
skyward sword is different to spirit tracks and so on. all those games are high quality titles.
i agree that if you have a character fatique this wont help to fall in love with a game. imo it's a strength of nintendo to take good care of their established ip's though. it's not milking or "not fresh" it totally is EVENTHOUGH they use their ol' characters. that's the trick and it works...maybe you don't like that approach and that's ok, but it just works too damn well for nintendo and i think it is a path sony should go too. it could work for them as well if they really focus on quality.

besides, there have been many "brandnew" nintendo ip's in the recent years as well...

just found this list. google. it isn't complete and haven't really doublechecked.
i don't wanna have another ninty discussion though.
maybe their games just aren't for you...must not mean that there are no new ip's, or only same ol' same ol'...

1. WarioWare series
2. Eternal Darkness
3. Mario & Luigi RPG (They’re the same characters but it’s a different series than Paper Mario or Super Mario RPG)
4. Golden Sun
5. Advance Wars (It was also on the NES and SNES, but it had a “rebirth” on the GBA)
6. Luigi’s Mansion
7. Pikmin
8. Xenoblade Chronicles
9. Baten Kaitos
10. Pandora’s Tower
11. The Last Story
12. Wii Sports
13. Wii Fit
14. Wii Play
15. Mario vs DK
16. Soma Bringer
17. Legend of Starfy
18. Elite Beat Agents
19. Rhythm Heaven
20. Fluidity
21. Endless Ocean
22. Magical Vacation/ Magical Starsign
23. Excitebots/Excite Truck
24. Legend of Starfy
25. Chibi Robo
26. Steel diver
27. Fossil Fighter
28. Art Academy
29. Glory of Heracles
30. ASH: Archaic Sealed Heat
31. Electroplankton
32. Drill Dozer
33. Art Style
34. Line Attack Heroes
35. Wii Music
36. Wii Party
37. Flingsmash
38. Disaster Day of Crisis
39. Captain Rainbow
40. Battalian Wars
41. Geist
42. Odama
43. Hamtaro
44. Meteos
45. Giftpia
46. bitGeneration
47. Art Style
.
.
.
like i said, didn't doublecheck. spotted some luigi mario dk in that list ;)

Posted 4 months ago #
Phoenixblight
Member

MS or SOny will not invest into a system that will be ahead 10 years that would be too costly and for what this info suggests that would be a 2k system and they will somehow sell it for 400$? riiiiiight.

MS, Sony and the GPU manufacturers are looking into and investing into cloud systems so they can build a system with the idea of being good enough for the first year much like Xbox 360 and PS3 but then push cloud gaming. Hardware doesn't make a game. Just need the Ram,cpu and a good enough GPU for them to get what they want out of the system.

This info you posted is just a compilation of dreams of every gamer.

Posted 4 months ago #
lexph3re
Member

I have played most of those games on that list poly and honestly over half of them are garbage. The others are just time killers.

Also, since the majority of your critiques are about my personal taste towards just nintendo. The reality is that for ME the big N is no longer cutting it. Bayonetta won't change that, Rayman won't change that, Wonderful 101 I can't say because off the top it doesn't look interesting to me.

Even now on the 3ds I have little to no reason to own one. Fact is I do though. After I beat Fire Emblem and MoF theres nothing left for me.

There is nothing wrong with me wanting Nintendo to create some more appealing characters for myself. I feel they have over done the nostalgia card for quite some time now. Quite frankly nostalgia is dead for me. On all systems.

Killer Instinct or a Good Perfect dark won't make me like MS. A game like Gears with less testosterone and face draggin in the floor running would be great for me. An FPS that doesn't follow the mainstream influence on ms would be great too.

I don't care where they take Drake or Kratos. The only nostalgia character I care about is Snake. I follow that dude where ever he goes.

I just like the next new experience with Snake being the closing event. Whichever system launches with a Metal Gear game and an exclusive I think looks interesting gets bought immediately to me.

Posted 4 months ago #

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